WASHINGTON — Pat A. Cipollone, who served as counsel to President Donald J. Trump, in the White House, received detailed questions on Friday about pardons, false allegations of election fraud and the former president’s pressure campaign against Vice President Mike Pence, according to three people familiar with his testimony before the House committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on Capitol.
The panel did not press him to confirm or deny the details of the explosive testimony by Cassidy Hutchinson, the former White House aide who captivated the country late last month with her narrative of an out-of-control president willing to embrace violence and stop nothing to stay in power, people said.
During a roughly eight-hour interview held behind closed doors in the O’Neill House office building, the group covered some of the same subject matter as during an informal interview with Mr. Cipollone in April. During Friday’s hearing, which took place only after Mr. Cipollone was served with a subpoena, investigators focused mainly on Mr. Cipollone’s views on the events of January 6 and generally did not ask about his views on the accounts of others witnesses.
A person familiar with Mr. Cipollone’s testimony said he provided new information that helped underscore the committee’s view that Mr. Trump had derelict his duties on Jan. 6. Mr. Cipollone has fought against the most extreme plans to cancel the 2020 election, according to multiple witnesses.
Mr. Cipollone, who has long argued that his direct conversations with Mr. Trump are protected by executive privilege and attorney-client privilege, invoked certain privileges by refusing to answer some of the committee’s questions.
Key takeaways from the January 6 hearings
The panel is videotaping Mr. Cipollone with potential plans to use clips of his testimony in upcoming hearings. Assistants have begun strategizing whether and where to adjust the scripts to include key clips, one person said. The next meeting is scheduled for Tuesday.
In the interview, Mr. Cipollone was asked about Mr. Trump’s false claims about a stolen election. The panel asked similar questions to senior Justice Department officials, White House lawyers and Trump campaign officials who testified that they disagreed with efforts to overturn the 2020 election.
Mr. Cipollone also broke with Mr. Trump in response to questions about the former president’s pressure campaign against Mr. Pence, which included in-person meetings, a nasty phone call and even a Twitter post attacking the vice president as rioters stormed the Capitol , promising to hang him, people familiar with the testimony said.
Mr. Cipollone’s consent to be interviewed by the committee has sparked speculation that his testimony could either support or contradict the account of Ms. Hutchinson, who attributed some of the most damning statements about Mr. Trump’s behavior of Mr. Cipollone. For example, she testified that Mr. Cipollone told her on the morning of Jan. 6 that Mr. Trump’s plan to escort the crowd to the Capitol would result in Trump officials being “charged with every crime imaginable.”
Two people familiar with Mr. Cipollone’s actions that day said he did not recall making that comment to Ms. Hutchinson. Those people said the committee was told before the interview that Mr. Cipollone would not confirm that conversation if asked. He was not asked about that particular statement Friday, according to people familiar with the matter.
“Why did Pat Cipollone and his lawyers let the J6 committee get away with subordinating Cassidy Hutchinson’s perjury?” Mr. Trump’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., who also testified in court, wrote on Twitter on Saturday. “Only cowards allow the left to bully them into sitting quietly instead of speaking up and telling the truth. Stop hiding in the background, Pat. Grow a backbone and save a record.
However, Mr. Cipollone was asked about conversations in which presidential pardons were discussed.
Ms. Hutchinson testified that on Jan. 7, the day after the attack on the Capitol, Mr. Trump wanted to promise clemency to those involved in the attack, but Mr. Cipollone insisted that language making such a promise be removed from the remarks, that the president had to surrender.
She has also testified that members of Congress and others close to Mr. Trump have sought clemency since the Jan. 6 violence.
An adviser to Mr. Cipollone declined to comment on his appearance before the panel.
“He was forthright with the committee,” Rep. Zoe Lofgren, Democrat of California and a member of the panel, said on CNN on Friday. “He was thoughtful in his answers and I believe he was honest in his answers.”
She added: “We have gained further insight into the actual day, January 6.”
Ms Lofgren said Mr Cipollone did not contradict other witnesses. “There were things that he might not have been present for or in some cases he might not have been able to remember accurately,” she said.
Mr. Cipollone’s testimony came after he reached an agreement to testify before a panel that had pressed him for weeks to cooperate and issued him a subpoena last month.
Mr. Cipollone witnessed key moments in Mr. Trump’s push to overturn the election results, including discussions of sending fake letters to government officials about election fraud and seizing voting machines. He was also in direct contact with Mr. Trump on Jan. 6 when rioters stormed the Capitol.
Mr. Trump resisted Mr. Cipollone’s cooperation. On Thursday, he posted on his social media platform Truth Social: “Why would a future president of the United States want to have frank and important conversations with his White House adviser if he thought there was even a small chance that person, essentially acting as “lawyer” for the country, may one day face a biased and openly hostile committee in Congress.”
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